168 – California Mag Laws Questions Answered | The Benefit of Procedural Control and Delay

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The August 14th ruling by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals in the case of Duncan v Becerra (the California Magazine Ban) is turning out to be a salutary lesson to retailers, California gun owners, and even the staff at GunMag Warehouse. There is far more to it than what many people might seem. In Episode 168 of The Mag Life Podcast we discuss the vagaries of that ruling, why and how it happened, what we can expect to happen next, and why California Gun Laws should be the concern of every gun owner in every state.

We also address some of the absurdities.

That said, there is a reason for the much-reviled delay that gun owners are suffering through — and it’s a good reason.

You may have heard (or even said) something like this: It’s unconstitutional? Well then, that law doesn’t apply. I can buy magazines!

Wrong.

Counterintuitive as it might seem, it’s a Good Thing that we have to wait — because if this was an issue we were against, then they would have to wait. It’s about checks and balances, and that is very much in everyone’s favor.

There are a couple of things you should remember when you listen to this episode:

  1. We know what a standard magazine is. We use terms like “high capacity”, “large capacity”, and even “assault weapon” here because that is the language of the court. We are striving for clarity.
  2. Many of the points brought up and discussed came directly from social media comments or questions submitted to GMW HQ by email. If you have questions that weren’t addressed, hit us up in the comments below. We’ll try to get ’em answered in a future episode.

Host: Daniel Shaw

Guest: John Dillon

Intro/Transcription: David Reeder

California Gun Laws

California’s Magazine Ban and the Benefits of Procedural Control

Timeline

00:10 Introducing John Dillon

02:00 Challenging California’s assault weapon ban.

03:30 An example of current efforts: Miller v. Becerra.

05:00 Explaining how gun control legislation is so often spawned in California.

05:50  Large capacity magazines. Constitutionality, injunctions, summary judgments, and appeals. The original Benitez ruling on common use and strict scrutiny, and why it matters.

09:40 The gratifying support for Californians displayed by customers in other states.

10:30 California’s response to the original injunction: the stay granted against buying, manufacturing, etc. (but not owning”, “until final resolution on appeal”).

When it comes to litigation, courts, and laws, you must adhere to procedures, including (perhaps especially) with regard to a “final resolution” or what is called a “final entry of judgment”. That is why the ruling did not immediately make the purchase of LCMs legal. The State of California still has options.

12:00 The ruling has been handed down. Now you can buy magazines again, right? No.

22:00 Why it maybe 90 days or so until the stay is lifted and purchasing magazines becomes lawful.

Procedurally, the August 14th 9th Circuit ruling is not a ‘final resolution”. California can still file a motion for reconsideration, can seek to have all 11 Ninth Circuit judges review it instead of just 3, or even file a Writ of Certiori, which requests the Supreme Court to consider the case.

25:00 Reminder of why such delays are beneficial. Checks and balances work both ways, which is good for all of us. In fact, this sort of procedural control saved California residents from potential criminal action when the magazine ban first went into place.

31:00 If magazines were successfully purchased during the initial confusion, are they illegal? What are the owners’ options? Keep it? Return it?

37:50 Civil action vs. “going kinetic”: the excellent example set for all of us by the Founding Fathers.

40:00 Why it’s important to support gun owners and pro-gun organizations in California no matter where you live.

49:33 A call to action. California gun laws can affect all of us because of “persuasive authority” (among other things). That is why it’s important to support them. Many states and (and other courts) are taking their cue from what happens in California.

 

Sites, Resources, and Additional Information

Firearms Policy Coalition

Duncan v. Becerra

Kolbe v. Hogan

Caetano v. State of Massachusetts 

District of Columbia v. Heller

Firearms Policy Coalition on social

John Dillon on social

Daniel Shaw on social

  • patrick

    I’m wondering ,did the state of California go through all this MUMBO JUMBO B.S. before they in acted this STUPID LAW ???? !!!!!

    • Ike Starnes

      nope

    • Mark Gasster

      45 years of Democrats running our legislature. Liberals keep voting for the stupidity.

      • Mellon

        Its Sad for America that Biden even has a Chance …that’s how Misinformed and Dumb the American People are and Brainwashed by the Leftist MSM..

  • Mark Gasster

    Okay, as Californians we will wait. I do like doing business with your company and want to continue. Hopefully, I can, court willing, buy my “standard capacity” magazines from gun mag warehouse.

  • Dave Kavanagh

    So if the stay is lifted and the magazines become legal with this also apply to the state of Hawaii

    • disqus_y3wiz1IYik

      Yes the 9th Circuit controls the laws in HI. Aloha.

    • MGD28

      A Hawaii 2A group is suing the state now.

    • Proud Deplorable

      Don’t hold your breath, with no response from the Social Justice Warriors here in CA, not a priority, they are moving beyond Mags already. At the end of 2019 they pushed heavily on gun grabbing before end of the year, right before they closed the courts here.

      They have a prohibited persons list maintained by CA DOJ, you can be placed on that list if you meet certain criteria. Including UNVERIFIED 911 calls, no actual Police Report just a call can get you on that list. If you have 3 incidents within 24 months, unverified or not, this includes purchase of a new firearm.

      Red Flag laws are abused to confiscate weapons and GVRO’s are being issued. All bank tellers and other non trained personnel, not verified, but may include fast food and food service folks, are forced into mandated reporting if they “think” someone may be violent?? they have to report it, or face employment termination.

      I’m telling you this because your state and CA, have the same political agenda, so be careful and stay smart. The thought police are really hear, people have lost their 2A rights because they “error on the side of caution” and suspend your rights indefinitely.

      Crazy Man

  • K-9,TheCat

    It’s all about perception…
    You just get to practice mag-reloads more often…
    You don’t wait for the mag to be empty in a real gun-fight, you switch out with fresh when there’s a lull in the exchange of fire…
    Glass Half-Full…

  • https://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Arnold Reynolds Ⓥ

    The “problem” is that the 9th Circuit court and even the supreme Court issue OPINIONS. They have told “California” that their OPINION is that the magazine ban is illegal. Well of course it is. But the COMMUNISTS that run California don’t care. Otherwise they wouldn’t have passed the “law” (read edict by psychopathic control freaks) in the first place. The people of California have three choices at the least. One is it vote the slime out. The other is to learn about the power of the jury and refuse to convict any Californian that violates the ban and the other is to shoot ANYONE who tries to enforce the ban. For you see…the “law makers” (read edicts by psychopathic control freaks) are not the problem. The problem is the “thin blue line” that is willing to sell their souls, violate their oaths of office and raid, cage or murder anyone who violates the “law” (read edict made by psychopathic control freaks). Throughout history it is THE ENFORCERS who are the issue. And they are ALSO THE MOST VULNERABLE when it comes to enforcing these communistic control freak edicts.

    • MGD28

      The courts opinion is legally binding. The state can’t do anything about it.

      • https://www.facebook.com/WizardKiller Mark Arnold Reynolds Ⓥ

        Wrong. The 10th amendment makes that quite clear.

        • MGD28

          Then why have a court? If the court decides the magazine ban is unconstitutional that’s it unless it’s appealed.

  • disqus_y3wiz1IYik

    CA’s reponse to this will drag on for months.

    • CJ

      Perhaps but, more and more no longer comply and truly do not care.

  • MGD28

    Got my fingers crossed in NJ for all of you in California. Sit tight, you’ll be blowing all your money on magazines in no time.

    • GUNSPRESSO

      yesss, and 2A has more money than Libs, so let use them for our freedom, fight them, sue them, Eric early already won the primary and he need to kick Schiff ass, Early don’t like Becerra, Becerra started all this 2A mess, so make Eric Early win the congress,

  • BOYNUKE

    CA’ians DESERVE NO “SPECIAL” CONSIDERATIONS!!! WHY? BECAUSE THEY -LIKE SPOILED MILLENIALS – DO NOTHING.. REPEAT: NOTHING(!) TO FIGHT FOR THEIR RIGHTS!! THEY DONT FUND THE LOCAL GUN RIGHTS ORGs, THEY DONT WANT TO BECOME NRA MEMBERS.. THEY DONT WANT TO DO ANYTHING BUT MEELY-MOUTH & COMPLAIN. HELL – THEY DONT EVEN WANT TO VOTE FOR CONSERVs – OVERALL! THE SAME ONES COMPLAINING HERE – GO RIGHT BAK & VOTE FOR THE SAME [email protected]#$ LIBS!

    NO – SORRY – KNOWING THIS -DONT HALT MY ORDER BECAUSE OF CA.!!! Im A PAYING CUSTOMER TOO! AND I PUT UP A “FIGHT TO THE DEATH” CONTINUOUS FIGHT FOR MY RIGHTS. CA’ians – R DISGUSTING! DONT JUSTIFY THEM -TO ME! UR GREEDY…

    HOW DO I KNOW ALL THIS? I MOVED FROM SAN FRAN – 5YRS AGO!!! MY FRIENDS – STILL THERE – IN L.A, SAN DIEGO, SAN FRAN!!! SO -THIS IS MORE THAN A [email protected]#$ OPINION!! [email protected]#$ ‘EM!! LIKE HE SAID: IF THEY DONT LIKE IT: START FIGHTING.. or (LIKE ME) … MOVE! …LET ‘EM GET UP OFF THEIR A$$E$ !!!!
    ** RIGHTS COME TO THOSE WHO WILL FIGHT FOR THEM.

    • Steve Plank

      You are assuming clean elections, when the watchdogs group “Judicial Watch” found in excess of 2 million names on the voter rolls of LA county that were subject to dispute of eligibility alone.. If these “dirty rolls” stand how do we know if so called “duly elected” officials really were?

    • CJ

      Your statement only proves how ignorant and pathetically stupid you truly are. Thousands of law abiding Californians fight the good fight through the CRPA & NRA and have now become “scofflaws“ because of the idiotic liberal nonsense Sacramento perpetrates in its effort to infringe upon ALL Americans 2nd amendment rights. As for you and your comments, you’re a coward. You left the state. Well there are those of us who are true American/Californian patriots and we will stay behind and do what is required to stay free Americans. It has always be stated “ As California goes so will the nation one day”. Over our dead bodies coward.

    • Dave

      I detest people who paint all Californians with the same color brush. Who are they to judge us all for we are comprised of very different people with very different views. Just as is found in other states, you have the city dwellers who are mostly (but not all!) liberals. On the other hand you have rural dwellers who are mostly (but not all!) conservatives. The city dwellers are in control even though the area in which they live is only about 6% of the state. The rest is rural or undeveloped.

      We have been fighting for our 2A rights from the beginning just as 2A supporters in NY, MA, NJ, etc., have continued to fight for their right. You have no idea what we have done, the lawsuits we have filed, the funds we have invested to fight for our right. Furthermore, like people in the entire nation, and in the spirit of the Founding Fathers, a great many of us are practicing Civil Disobedience. We have not registered, turned in, or destroyed weapons and magazines.

      My county is one example of what we believe and what we do. First, our Sheriff posted an open letter on the SO web site in which he stated that his department would not enforce any laws violating the US Constitution, nor would they refuse to work with ICE or any other federal agency. That they would provide no assistance to state agents in the county to enforce laws which violate the Constitution. If need be, the Sheriff declared he would deputize every firearm owner in the county. Essentially, our Sheriff openly rejected the concept of a “Sanctuary” county. Our county board vote to reject sanctuary status. Our Sheriff was reelected. When he retired, the new Sheriff declared that he would support the views of the former Sheriff.

      We have legal actions filed against the Governor (New Scum) the Attorney General, and the CA DOJ. Our efforts have resulted in success in some litigations such as this one. Of course, the state has finances with which we have a hard time competing. Any wins we achieve set precedence for you in other states to use to fight for your rights.

      We depend upon the National Rifle Association (NRA), established in 1871, which has fought for our rights against the state. The California Rifle & Pistol Association (CRPA), founded in 1875, has done so as well.

      So, before you berate ALL Californians as being too lazy to fight for our rights, make note of what we do, what we continue to sacrifice, and how our efforts benefit citizens in other states which will certainly try to use what the state does against us against people like you.

      People. We are ALL citizens entitled to unalienable rights. We are all in this fight for our rights together. A house divided will not long endure. Stop playing into the hands of the anti-gunners, and join together in unity.

    • D Harlo

      Jesus people are ignorant.

    • Sovereignty_Soldier

      Shut up genius. This only affects Ca. orders. You moved because it is too expensive for a janitor anymore. There are plenty of Threepers in Ca. and plenty of fighting. The dems have rigged the voting system statewide. No chance to get rid of them or their legislation

  • A. Kuntler

    Please also use this period to stock up on Sig Sauer mags since I will shortly have a pressing need

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  • Proud Deplorable

    Hey fellow patriot’s The last thing we need is calling each other names, leave that to the Marxest. They are masters of division and deception, especially here in Commiefornia. I understand that other states with leaders who don’t bow down to domestic terrorist, like the Mayor and Chief of Police did here in Sacramento, may not fully understand that our gun rights here have been fought for by people just like them. AMERICANS, who want to live free, but have openly Socialist Leaders in power. We need your support, not criticism. Pull together or we all lose!

  • Proud Deplorable

    BTW BoyNuke, both of your previous locations here in CA are exactly what you described, no argument. But as you know we are not run by the people, we are dictated by the voting power and redistricting antic’s of the Democratic party.
    There’s a lot of folks here on the left coast that have no voice anymore, only the Democratic ran cities have that voice.

  • Zardoz1

    Thanks for the lengthy word salad.

    But when will people in California be able to purchase high capacity magazines?

    What is the deadline for the CA AG to request an en banc decision? And if the AG fails to make that request, are there any other procedures for challenging the district court’s decision & what are the deadlines for making those requests? Californians want to know how long their Constitutional rights can be put in suspense. They want to know when they can purchase high capacity magazines.

  • GUNSPRESSO

    so when can we get the 30 rds? its the 28th.

  • Freddie73

    CA. Atty General just filed motion for reconsideration.

  • NonCommunistCalifornian

    so your obviously in support of the ban, Cant wait for a response to a law that is unconstitutional. The law is written in ink, I could care less what a person’s opinion on the matter is. The law is the law, democrats will drag this on forever.

  • dukhunr

    Since most Commiefornians will keep re-electing the most vile, constitution-hating, elitists, (treasonous Schiff and Pelosi will keep getting re-elected by LA and SF) my only advice for those supporters of the constitution, specifically the 2A, remaining in the state without representation is to move to a free state. There are about 39 of them to choose from. Commiefornia is a lost cause IMO.