{"id":399741,"date":"2023-06-12T11:00:41","date_gmt":"2023-06-12T16:00:41","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/?p=399741"},"modified":"2023-06-09T14:34:24","modified_gmt":"2023-06-09T19:34:24","slug":"co-witnessing-does-it-matter","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/co-witnessing-does-it-matter\/","title":{"rendered":"Co-Witnessing: Does it Matter?"},"content":{"rendered":"

If you run optics on pistols or defensive rifles, you\u2019ve probably heard the term \u201cco-witness.\u201d You\u2019ve also probably heard it broken down into absolute co-witness and lower third co-witness. Finally, if you pay attention, you\u2019ve seen the pros and cons of both. But does it really matter which method you choose, or do you even have to choose? Let\u2019s talk about it.<\/p>\n

\"Absolute
The absolute-co-witnessed sights on my son’s IWI Masada pistol. Note how the dot rests on top of the post. (Author’s Photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

What is Co-Witness?<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Just in case you haven\u2019t read those articles or watched those videos, the term co-witness refers to aligning your electronic sights and iron sights<\/a> so that you can run either or both. It\u2019s really that simple. The details emerge when you start deciding how to accomplish that. Or you may just run one or the other, which is perfectly fine. Those people do exist since not every gun owner is OCD or feels the need to incorporate every latest thing on their guns.<\/p>\n

I fall in between, having not one, but two optics on my number one AR-15. The fact that I have a \u201cnumber one\u201d of any rifle shows that I can be a geek about such things. But\u2026\u2019Murica. That AR does not have iron sights for the simple reason that I don\u2019t have rail space for a rear sight and my offset is occupied by a red dot<\/a>. On the other hand, I still haven\u2019t bought into optic-equipped handguns. I just don\u2019t like them. I may or may not come around one day. We\u2019ll see.<\/p>\n

My dislike of handgun optics and an extra rifle optic mean that I don\u2019t need to co-witness anything on that rifle or any of my handguns. So, why write this article? First, I was asked to. Second, I do have co-witnessed sights on my beloved AK-103 and my son has optics on two handguns, being wired a bit differently than the old man. So, the question becomes absolute co-witness or lower third? To me, and this is my article, the answer is \u201cyes.\u201d<\/p>\n

Pick What Works<\/strong><\/h2>\n

That answer probably seems like a cop-out. But let me explain. When the gun bug bit me about a dozen years ago, I devoured every bit of info I could, trying to learn the \u201cbest\u201d way to do things. After all, guns and accessories ain\u2019t cheap and I wanted to spend my money wisely.<\/p>\n

\"Guns
No, they ain’t.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

What I learned was that there are often several \u201cbest\u201d choices and sometimes one way of doing something works just as well as another. What you hear depends on who you\u2019re listening to at the moment. I\u2019ve now reached the point where some people (some, not many) ask my opinion on guns and gun-related topics. After many years of searching for the \u201cbest\u201d thing, my answer is almost always, \u201cIt depends,\u201d closely followed by a question about what that person wants to accomplish. Call it a cop-out if you want. I call it being honest after listening to too many people tell me I should do what they do because everything else is wrong.<\/p>\n

But if you\u2019re going to choose, you need to understand the choices, so here we go.<\/p>\n

Absolute Co-Witness<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Absolute co-witness simply refers to your optic and irons being directly aligned. If you look through your optic and your dot or reticle rests right at the top of your front sight post, you have an absolute co-witness.<\/p>\n

When I ran flip-up irons on my AR, I had them set up like this. I did that because an absolute co-witness meant that my cheek weld stayed the same, no matter which sights I used. A lower third co-witness forces me to adjust my cheek weld. More on that in a moment. It also meant that both sights, electronic and iron, had to be zeroed the same. But that\u2019s not hard. Just zero the irons first, dial in your optic, and confirm the zero. You may have to fiddle with it a bit while paying attention to your cheek weld.<\/p>\n

\"Lower
Co-witnessed rifle sights. (wideners.com)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

If I ever go back to flip up sights, I\u2019ll do it the same way. I should note that most, if not all flip-up AR sights are designed for absolute co-witness, so there\u2019s that.  And because I\u2019ve committed to a 1-8x LPVO rifle scope<\/a> as my primary optic, I will want flip up irons. I don\u2019t want a fixed front post cluttering up my field of view. Also, my LPVO\u2019s eye relief is less forgiving than an ordinary 1x red dot. That makes it more important than ever that my cheek weld is the same every time.<\/p>\n

Keep in mind that the dot may not always be perfectly aligned on the front post. Sometimes it may appear a bit off. Once you\u2019re zeroed, this is usually a cheek weld issue. If you have doubts, get your cheek weld right and confirm your zero.<\/p>\n

Likewise, my son uses absolute co-witness on his handguns. That makes sense to me. Pushing out and presenting a handgun so that you pick up the front sight every time is a training issue. An absolute co-witness means you have the same presentation, even if your dot fails.<\/p>\n

So, does all that mean lower third co-witness isn\u2019t as good? Nope. Let\u2019s talk about that.<\/p>\n

Lower Third Co-Witness<\/strong><\/h2>\n

The primary advantage of lower third co-witness is that there isn\u2019t as much going on in your optic picture. That\u2019s because, as the name implies, the top of your iron sight is sitting down in the lower part of your optic window. Your dot or reticle will hover above it, free and clear. An absolute co-witness means that more of the iron is in your line of sight, perhaps negating some of your optic\u2019s advantages.<\/p>\n

The trade-off, as we noted, is that you probably need to train more to use optics and irons effectively. Now, this can be as innocuous as lowering your cheek weld to engage the irons. It\u2019s not really an issue if you practice. With handguns, a lower third co-witness means your presentation angle will differ. Personally, I\u2019m not a fan since getting your presentation down is hard enough without having to learn it two ways. But you do you.<\/p>\n

\"Co-witnessed
Co-witnessed handgun sights. (wideners.com)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Some firearms, however, don\u2019t give you a choice. My AK-103, for example. The AK\u2019s fixed sights, combined with the optic mounting system, require a lower third co-witness for me. That\u2019s the case for most AKs. I say most because I\u2019m sure someone has figured out an absolute setup of which I am unaware. But with mine, I can either do a lower-third co-witness or go without an optic.<\/p>\n

Honestly, I\u2019m comfortable either way, but my eyes aren\u2019t what they used to be, so I found an optic that works for me. I\u2019ve mitigated the difference between my absolute co-witnessed AR-15 and my lower third co-witnessed AK-103 by installing a low magnification (3x) optic with a very forgiving eye relief on the latter. That way, I can easily adjust my cheek weld without seeing a tube full of black when I try to acquire the irons. A simple 1x red dot would work fine too, but like I said, my eyes aren\u2019t great these days and I want some magnification. Honestly, my eyes may yet force me to adopt handgun optics.<\/p>\n

Zeroing isn\u2019t a big deal here, either. I just turn off the optic and zero the irons through the optic window. I then zero the optic as I normally would. It\u2019s not hard, assuming you know how to zero your sights.<\/p>\n

One Last Thing: Mounting Height<\/strong><\/h2>\n

Optic mounts come in different heights, as you\u2019re probably aware. I can\u2019t give you much hard and fast information about which to use. I can, however, say that a 0.83-inch riser mount provides absolute co-witness for standard AR-15 height iron sights. A one-inch riser mount will give you a lower third co-witness for the same sights.<\/p>\n

BUT\u2026there are shorter mounts that will also give you a lower third co-witness. And understand that this varies across platforms. I can\u2019t tell you exactly what mounts will give you what you want. My advice, as always, is do your homework. If I\u2019m looking at a product from which I want a particular result, I find out whether it can deliver. If that means I have to call the company to ask them directly, then that\u2019s what happens. Most are happy to help you. If not, go somewhere else.<\/p>\n

\"Lower
The sights on my AK-103 are lower third co-witnessed, thanks to the fixed AK front sight and the mounting system. (Author’s Photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

Neither is Wrong<\/strong><\/h2>\n

As I explained, I have reasons for my AR and AK setups. My son has reasons for his handgun setups. We chose them because they work for us. With the AK, I didn\u2019t have a choice of co-witness, but I did have a choice about how I approached it.<\/p>\n

No one knows your needs better than you. Not me. Not anyone else. I can offer what I do and, more importantly, why I do it. If that helps you, even if it makes you think \u201cthat\u2019s stupid,\u201d that\u2019s great. That means I\u2019m doing my job.<\/p>\n

The important part is that you find what works for you. Lower third? Fantastic. Absolute? Awesome. Does it depend on the gun? Sweet. As long as you know what you\u2019re getting into, and train for it, then you\u2019re good either way.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

What’s the difference between absolute co-witness and lower-third co-witness? If you pay attention, you\u2019ve seen the pros and cons of both. But does it really matter which method you choose, or do you even have to choose? Let\u2019s talk about it.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":42,"featured_media":399742,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[2614],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-399741","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-skill-building"],"small_media_thumbnail":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2023\/05\/absolute-co-witness-masada-300x225.jpg","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/399741","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/42"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=399741"}],"version-history":[{"count":5,"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/399741\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":401418,"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/399741\/revisions\/401418"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/399742"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=399741"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=399741"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/gunmagwarehouse.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=399741"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}